Biblical Sky Texts — Saturnian Citation Tiers
TL;DR: Not every biblical sky verse belongs on the Saturnian evidence ledger. Genesis 1 (light before luminaries, firmament) and Plutarch, De facie §26 (Saturnia / Cronus / polar twilight) earn investigation weight. Ecclesiastes 1:5–7 is phenomenological only — useful against geocentrism apologetics, not a timeline anchor. Big Bang “primordial light” is a modern creation myth — see timeline 1927 CE — Big Bang as secular creation myth. Status: Open (citation registry) Prompt: Facebook thread (Bill Taylor / Michel Francois / Ari Asulin, June 2025) — Ecclesiastes 1:5–7, Genesis light, Big Bang, Saturnian reply.
Claim
Lay debates often collapse three unlike things:
- Ancient observational sky language (sunrise, wind circuits, hydrological cycle)
- High-fidelity Saturnian memory (polar Saturn, firmament, creation light before assigned luminaries)
- Modern cosmological dogma (Big Bang, CMB as “primordial light”)
This dossier separates them so Creation Event Interpretations and the Seven Days article do not inherit weak citations.
Citation tier table
| Source | Passage | Tier | Saturnian use | Timeline anchor? |
| Genesis 1 | Light Day 1; luminaries Day 4; firmament; waters above/below | A | Strong — light-before-luminaries = ~4077 BCE nova; firmament = Absu | Yes (epoch mapping) |
| Plutarch, De facie §26 | Saturnia/Ogygia west of Britain; Cronus in cave; star of Cronus; sun “out of sight <1 hr / 30 days” near Cronian isles | B | Atlantic Cronus/Saturn memory; polar/twilight behavior | No — tradition preservation (~1st–2nd c. CE) |
| Plato, Timaeus / Critias | Atlantis geography | B | Polar Mars / column access — see Atlantis article | No |
| Ecclesiastes 1:5 | Sun ariseth, goeth down, hasteth to his place | C | Phenomenological parallel only — any sky model uses this idiom | No |
| Ecclesiastes 1:6–7 | Wind circuits; rivers to sea | D (for cosmology) | Observable meteorology/hydrology; not secret modern science | No |
| Big Bang / CMB | “Primordial light” | N/A (modern) | Competing creation myth — not ancient witness | 1927–1965 CE institutional event |
Tier key: A = primary Saturnian diagnostic; B = strong archaic memory; C = weak echo; D = irrelevant to sky configuration; N/A = modern narrative.
Ecclesiastes 1:5–7 — findings
Verse 5
The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. — Ecclesiastes 1:5 (KJV)
- Composition: Persian/Hellenistic Kohelet — millennia after ~3147 BCE configuration break.
- Genre: Vanity/cycles under the sun — not cosmological treatise.
- Language: Standard ancient phenomenological idiom (same class as “windows of heaven”).
- Saturnian read (allowed): “Sun” may include remembered dominant luminary (Saturn-as-Kronos) in other texts — but this verse does not discriminate; heliocentrists and geocentrists write the same line.
- Verdict: Optional footnote for “observational language is not geocentrism.” Do not promote to primary evidence.
Verses 6–7
- Wind and river cycles were known to sailors and farmers — not 1880s discoveries.
- No Saturnian specificity — does not strengthen polar configuration thesis.
- Verdict: Rebut Bible-code science apologetics only; exclude from Saturnian correlation tables.
Plutarch — On the Face Which Appears in the Orb of the Moon, §26
Primary text: Perseus: Plutarch, De facie, section 26
Salient motifs for Saturnian work:
| Motif | Plutarch | Saturnian read |
| Saturnia / Ogygia | Island ~5 days sail west of Britain; Cronian main | Atlantic Cronus cult geography — rhymes Atlantis without identifying sites |
| Cronus imprisoned | Sleeps in shining cave; birds bring ambrosia | Stationary / bound Saturn god — matches “imprisoned polar deity” worldwide |
| Star of Cronus | Enters Bull every 30 years; envoys sail on schedule | Saturn orbital memory encoded as ritual calendar |
| Polar twilight | Near outlying isles, sun passes out of sight <1 hour over 30 days | Not Mediterranean sunset — high-latitude / polar-sky behavior |
| Great Island | Mainland beyond ocean — “where we live” | Inverse geography: archaic cosmography from Cronian pole |
Dating: 1st–2nd c. CE literary report — preservation, not eyewitness to 4077 BCE.
Verdict: Cite in investigations (Atlantic Cronus, polar twilight). Do not use as chronological pin.
Genesis “light before stars” vs Big Bang
| Reading | Mechanism | Who advanced it |
| Saturnian | Saturn nova clears coma; present Sun/stars assigned roles later | Cook, Talbott, Creation Event Interpretations |
| Big Bang | CMB = afterglow of hot dense origin | Lemaître, Gamow, 1965 press |
| Concordist | Day 1 = spiritual light; Day 4 = physical | Mainstream theology |
Lay argument (Michel Francois, June 2025): primordial light = Big Bang; who knew until recently?
Author reply (Ari Asulin): That maps one creation myth onto another. Ancient light-before-luminaries is witness memory in the Saturnian frame, not microwave echo. Institutional story: 1927 CE — Big Bang as secular creation myth.
Modern scientist religion (author sentiment)
Captured on timeline per author request:
The Big Bang is dogma — a thinly veiled creation myth that scaled into the known universe after objects outside the solar system were first resolved. It was a theological argument the seculars lost, producing a new priesthood — modern scientists / “scientific consensus.”
Cross-links: Consensus theater, Einstein 1905 appendix, New Religion of Constancy.
Recommendations
- Seven Days / Creation investigations — keep Genesis 1 tiers A; link Plutarch as B in Atlantic/Cronus sections.
- Ecclesiastes — one-line index: phenomenological parallel only; not diagnostic.
- Social debate — use this dossier to refuse Bang ↔ Bible closure without importing Saturnian or institutional context.
- Follow-up: Extract Popol Vuh witness-light primary (already flagged in Creation Event Interpretations).
Sources
- Ecclesiastes 1:5–7 — BibleGateway KJV
- Plutarch, De facie §26 — Perseus
- Creation Event Interpretations
- 1927 CE — Big Bang as secular creation myth
Keywords: #Ecclesiastes #Plutarch #Saturnia #Saturnian #BigBang #citation #Kohelet #Cronus
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